Mastering SEO with Justin Morgan | Dental Marketing Blog

Transcript of Delivering Wow Dental Podcast with Justin Morgan aka the dental marketing guy:

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Dr. Anissa Holms: Welcome to the delivering Wow dental podcast, episode 29. Ready to scale up your Facebook marketing? Head on over to

Hi guys, and welcome to another episode of the delivering wow dental podcast, I’m your host, Dr. Anissa Holms. Today I actually have a really good friend on the show and was going to be talking all about SEO. Today I’m interviewing Justin Morgan, and some of you guys may already know him, he is known as the dental marketing guy and his dental marketing enthusiasts, specializing in getting your dental website to rank highly on search engines.

Justin is different from many SEO experts because he believes in performing a comprehensive analysis to determine if SEO is the right solution for your practice. Justin believes that when you take a deliberate approach towards marketing, the tactics you choose will be more effective, then if you rush into it. He is also the host of the dental marketing guy show on YouTube.

So, Justin, welcome to the show, what is going on?

Justin: It’s going great, it’s a wonderful day, and I’m so honored to be on your podcasts, thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Anissa Holms: Well I’m so happy to have you; I know I was fortunate enough to be on your YouTube show, last month I believe. It’s awesome to have you on the delivering wow podcast.

Justin: thank you.

Dr. Anissa Holms: so before we get started, I’d like for you to tell us a little bit about the journey that’s lead you to where you are today.

Justin: yeah, you know – my background is in search engine optimization and I did that for local businesses, basically when I was in law school, at the time, years back, I was looking for a way to kind of pay for tuition, and you know I just kind of started getting into building cheap  websites , started learning like ‘hey, these websites aren’t really doing a whole lot  of good, how can I help these friends of mine build their business?’ and SEO just made sense, I mean here you are building a website, that doesn’t really do a lot of good, set sitting out on the interwebs.

So I started learning about SEO, I was surprised how, in some markets how easy it was, and then I started to get into more competitive markets as I started to learn more. As that progressed I eventually decided – I had some life changes, and I decided that law school wasn’t right for me, and I started doing this full tie, and basically focused on my neighborhood in San Louis Obispo, in California. And it was great, I got a lot of good results for clients in every industry, and sort of became known locally as the guy to go to for SEO, and then I started working with a lot of web designers, so they’d do the design side, I’d do a little bit more the SEO side, and eventually just started reading books, and you know ‘how can I help more?’ because I felt like SEO was only one part of real  world marketing, and you know, I wanted to make sure that I could really increase the Return on investment for my clients and eventually I decided – you know, I was trying to find a niche’, I was trying to find what’s an industry that I could really help people with my skills,  and dental was always towards the top of that list. I made  a list of probably about 20 different industry’s that interested me, that I thought were really good for society, and dental was towards the top of that list, and what I did was, I said ‘you know  what, I’m going to go for it’ and I told a lot  of the local web designers, ‘hey look, if you have a dentist, I want to specialize in this, this seems like a really good fit for me’ and then just kind of – actually it’s kind of funny because one of the web designers was like ‘yeah, I actually got a lead from a dentist today’ like the same day that I told him this, I was like ‘wow, shoot me his information, let me contact him’.

So I ended up meeting with this doctor about 15 minutes north from me, and we just hit it off, I just told him ‘look, I really want to specialize in dental, so I’m going to do anything I can to help you grow your practice, the way you want it to grow, just let me know what your goals are, I’m 100% invested’ and it’s going great, we’re still going strong, and just started getting more and more dentists and yeah, got some great results.

So it’s been very rewarding to specialize in this industry, and I’m glad I did it, and here we are.

Dr Anissa Holms: so can you tell me a little bit more about how you help dentists achieve there goals?

Justin: absolutely, you know – here’s the thing is, there’s a lot of discussion on online- as I’m sure you’ve seen, that people talk about SEO, and there’s a lot of preconceived ideas about what it is, and one of the things I like to do is, I like to take kind of a holistic approach and see if SEO really is the right solution for your practice. And one of the ways that we  do that is, we just don’t assume that it’s something that you have to do, what we do is, we say ‘look, let’s see how many people are searching in your area, let’s see what the lifetime value is for different keywords’ – for instance; Invisalign is going to have a different  lifetime value then someone looking for a delta dental insurance carrier, and so what I do is, I like to take that holistic approach and basically just research my way out of a job if I can, you know, just say ‘look, SEO is not the right fit for you, what you need to do is, contact Anissa Holmes, you need to do Facebook ads’.

What I try to do is that, or we say ‘look, SEO is a must for you’ or somewhere in-between on that spectrum. So, for instance, if we sit down and we say ‘look, here’s the things that I want to put on the table, of course SEO, maybe a website redesign, maybe video production, maybe photography’ all these different things; direct mail, Facebook ad’s, social media  marketing – put them all on the table and lets really assess what’s best for you, for your personality, your team, your company culture, what you want to do, what you want to achieve, and then of course, your budget. So I think that’s really, kind of what separates me from a lot of SEO providers, is; when someone knows SEO, they tend to recommend SEO in every case, but I’ve found that SEO is sometimes not the hail Mary that many dentists think it is, and then in other cases, it’s really undervalued, so what I try to do is, I try to help dentists see, like – what is the real value to you, why SEO or why not SEO? And we do that through research. So I know that’s kind of a long winded answer.

Dr Anissa Holms: no it’s good. It’s really good. So can you tell me a little bit more about the analysis that you perform, in terms of SEO?

Justin: yeah, so like I said, we have to look at the keywords,  a lot of them are intuitive, I mean, everybody knows ‘dentist, your city’ everybody knows ‘you city, dentist’, everybody  knows those are going to be the highest volume keywords that people are going to search, but what does that really mean?

Assessing your competitors – anyone who knows my marketing philosophy, knows that I don’t actually believe that your competing against other dentists, I think that your competing with the discretionary spending that goes to Las Vegas, Mercedes Benz, you know even star Bucks, and you’re really competing with those budgets, but when it comes to SEO your competing with other dentists, because that’s all there is in those google search results for your keywords. So what we have to do is, we have to see what you competition is doing, what is your competition doing? and we can do that by looking at  what kind of backlinks do they have, what kind of content have they produced, how consistent have they been in the past, how long have they been doing SEO? and I would say, in most cases, we can see about 90% of the activity based on this research that I perform, I do this all the time, and basically look at the website, look at what other websites they may have, what social media they have going on, and really kind of extrapolate, based in that data; ‘here’s what I think it’s really going to take to rank you, if I do this for you, and then here’s what I think, if you do this XYZ, it’s going to make things easier, it’s going to make things move faster’ so for instance, maybe doing blog posts, maybe taking pictures and videos for  social media, putting that up on the blog, things like that.

We can really reduce a lot of costs, and increase the pace with which we compete with, if the dentists is willing to take a little action there selves, but if there not able to do that, then you know – you’ve got to pay to play, you’ve got to have someone, you’ve got to have a good writer who understands the psychology of  the people searching for your services,  and ultimately, the bottom line is, why does your website deserve to be on the top of google, Bing and yahoo’s search results, and if you can answer that question; that’s when you’re going to rank. When you answer that question, you identify what are other dental offices to rank, because you know it’s not random, it’s all algorithm calculated. So when you know – when you bring in an SEO expert who you trust to represent you well, what happens is, you guys find the solutions – we find the solutions, we know what other dental offices are  doing to rank. So that’s the first key is; knowing the competitive landscape.

So if you’re a dentist in Charlotte, North Carolina, you’re going to have a totally different competitive landscape then being in Timbuctoo where there are only 2 dental offices in town. And then you’re going to see a difference in return on investment, and that’s the last part of the analysis, is; what does it mean to you – what does ranking actually mean? and sometimes it’s a little bit – there’s something left up to some inference, where you don’t know exactly – I mean, we can’t geometrically predict, like you’re going to have 34.2 new patients per month, but what we can do is we can kind of look at the numbers, and we can kind of get an idea – like you know, you’re looking at 15-20 new patients a month, most months.

And that’s really where the real magic happens, is; knowing what you can expect, so I think setting expectations is really key with any kind of marketing, but especially SEO, because many SEO companies are kind of enigmatic, there just like ‘hey, it’s $2 000 a month, and well get you there, we’ll get you ranked’ But it’s a little – it’s not the approach that I like to take, and I think that dentist are really smart when it comes to assessing – looking ahead and saying ‘what does this really mean?’.

So that’s what I try and bring to the table for my clients.

Dr Anissa Holms: I really love that, Justin, and I can relate  it to  Facebook, you know, that’s really my area, where I can really add a lot of value, and it’s the same kind of thing, some people are paying a lot of money just to have ad’s but they don’t have engaging content. And what really allows – for example – Facebook, to show your posts, is having that engagement, and the more engagement you have, the more users will really want to engage with you, the more they will want to have your posts seen, or in your case; have our website rank. So what you said in terms of having the blog post, having all of the videos – which really add to the content, and also I would imagine, not  updating your website, or updating you content for extended periods of time. I know some dentist have pictures on their website from years ago and it hasn’t been updated. And I really like what you said, because a lot of people don’t realise the importance of having that great content.

Justin: yeah, it’s true, I mean I usually – I mean I’ve got a whole video course on YouTube where I talk about SEO all day every day; and it’s about 2 things. I mean, we can talk about SEO for hours, but ultimately, if you want the boiled down version of SEO, it’s comes down to 2 things; content, and links. So, the value of that content it’s – it’s measured through a  number of different things, like usage metrics –  you know, like how people engage with the content, but ultimately, the  – right now – and SEO is always changing, but right now, whose linking to your content, is pretty much the biggest factor, and if you can produce content that’s link worthy, that share worthy, on social media – that’s really where you get the most mileage out of your content, and that’s when search engines start to take notice, because you can have someone at google reviewing every dental website, right?

Dr Anissa Holms: absolutely.

Justin: so, you know, it’s one of those things where you have to understand that they have to use algorithms’ and the way they measure the quality of your content, the authority of your brand, is ‘whose linking to your content?’ I mean a lot of the dentists who blog about things, there doing it for the content, but they don’t – they don’t have the quality of content to deserve those links. So yeah, I mean, that’s a very important part of it, so I would say if there is one thing that anyone can take away from my philosophy of SEO – it’s been very successful, is; you’ve got to have quality content,  and you’ve got to earn links.

Dr Anissa Holms: right, I really love that and you know, for me, marketing is about having a strategy to grow your business, and it has to be something that gives a return on your investment, otherwise it really doesn’t make sense, and to me, having visibility on the web, makes a lot of sense, and that’s how you’re going to get new patients. And to me it’s really a marketing cycle – it’s a plan, because if you don’t have great SEO, people are not going to find you website, people are not going to see you in social media. You know, your social media links back to your website, your website links back to your social media -it’s really a cycle, and I tell  dentist all the time, you know, if  every time you gave me $5, I gave you $10 back, how many times would you give me $5? and to me, this stuff just really makes sense, once you’re really able to have that content that’s great, once you’re able to have those shareable content – to me it’s just really a no brainer.

Justin: Absolutely. Yeah, it’s great, and you know, I would say a lot of what you’re doing in Facebook, is really useful data as well, I mean, I would be interested to see, if a dentist contacted me, and they were having the kind of Facebook activity that you have, or even a fraction of that – I want to take a look at that, because that’s going to play a role in how search engines perceive you. So it’s all interconnected, it is – you know SEO 5-6 years ago was completely different, it was totally rudimentary, you took some software, you shot out a million links, and you ranked, and then you put your keywords, this city, dentist this city, over and over, and you just ranked.

Nowhere a day’s that’s not the case, in fact you can actually get what is called a ‘google penalty’ where, you’re not even going to be able to ever rank without petitioning google to manually review your site, and asking for forgiveness for using what we in the industry call ‘black hat SEO’ which is basically a rudimentary, none helpful way of trying to rank. So I think that’s really where it’s at. It’s in the real brands, it’s in your creating a brand that matters to people, that helps people, and then from there, if you’ve got that down pat, and you’re not ranking – like if people refer to you –  I said in one of my YouTube videos, I said ‘if people refer to you, but you’re not earning links, that’s a problem because deserve it, you deserve links’ so you just need to bring in someone like an SEO expert who can say ‘look, here’s the strategy.  Here’s how we’re going to earn you inbound links, because you deserve them, because if people are referring to your practice then obviously there willing to link to you, if you only knew how to help them to do that’

So there’s a number of strategies that I use with my clients to try and help them earn links, to try and help them create buzz as I call it.

Dr Anissa Holms: I really love that. So what mistakes do you see dentist making when it comes to SEO, or their website?

Justin: I think probably the most common mistake is having a number set in their mind – a budget, that is based on – I mean, you could have a budget based on your real world finances, and that’s obviously important, but to have a budget set based on some sort of predetermined criteria of what SEO means to your practice – that’s not a good way to approach it. I think the best way to approach it is, find someone who you believe will go to bat for you in the research phase, find out how many people are searching for your services and start making a decision based on that data. And one of the  biggest things I see is a lot of dentists come to me and they say, ‘look, I was paying $400 a month for SEO, and I’m shocked at your prices’ and obviously it didn’t work for  them, because they wouldn’t have contacted me.

But that’s one of the biggest things is, if you paid for cheap SEO in the past, a lot of times that kind of calibrates what SEO ought to be worth. So obviously is $400 a month didn’t work before, maybe $900 is the right – sweet spot.

But  that’s sort of an arbitrary form of logic, it’s not really concurrent on common sense, so what I would encourage dentists to do, is; makes sure you know what you’re getting into, make sure this is the things that you want to do. SEO is not for every dental practice, obviously if every dental practice in America did SEO, and they all did it full gung-ho – I mean it would be a total waste of money for half of them.

Dr Anissa Holms: right.

Justin: so, yeah.

Dr Anissa Holms:  I think that’s really interesting, and like I said before, it’s really all about testing and measuring and ROI, and I can tell you when I first started with Facebook marketing, and of course I can speak about that, that’s what I know. I started with $50 a month because I really didn’t understand strategy at the time,  and what I started to see however, is ‘okay, I got 3 new patients this month’ and I started to test and understand and at that time there was no one to really teach strategy, so I sort of figured it out myself, but what I relied is that every time I was putting money in, I was getting money out, so eventually what happened was I actually pulled my budget for my yellow pages ad and I stopped doing newspaper advertising and all of these things because I saw the tremendous ROI. So now I’m spending $500 a month, and we’ve grown and we’re getting that benefit, and it think this really the same sort of thing with SEO, I mean, this is really the new media, and so, if dentists, in my opinion, are not embracing it, there missing out on a huge opportunity to really grow their practice, because it’s just really amazing. As I said before, it’s one area that I don’t feel like you should really skimp on, because this is marketing, and to me marketing is not an expense, it’s an investment.

Justin: absolutely. Yeah, if it’s viewed as an expense – I know there’s some – I’ve talked to people who sell radio ads, newspaper ads, all sorts of stuff, and it’s seems like a lot of times, they come up to me, they want to know if I’m working with a dentist who runs a full page newspaper ad, because they believe that, there is a budget, there’s as set budget for marketing, and that if they can just steal some of  that budget – they feel like ‘oh, well, instead of doing those mailers’ and they don’t know anything about the effectiveness of mailers, but there pushing their medium,  and their like ‘well listener, if you just drop the mailers, or  just drop the radio ad, or drop the newspaper ad, and you just come to us – you should give it a try, you know’ – but that kind of  logic is that exact opposite of the holistic approach that I try to help dentists with. So what I do it is, I look at that attitude and I say ‘well the problem is, their viewing marketing as an expense, that there’s a set budget, in every dental office, and that they just throw money at marketing or advertising’ – not indiscriminately, but they’re going to spend a certain amount.

Well for some dental practice, I would recommend you not spend anything on advertising. You know, they could go to you Facebook course, and they could learnt he kind of content they need to produce, that goes viral, that gets shared, and they don’t need to spend a penny on newspaper ads or radio ads or whatever – or even SEO, because the point is, every dental practice is different, and every location has a different dynamic, and when you can kind of grasp that idea that, you know, it really comes down to ROI, it’s really comes down to testing, like you said, it comes down to ‘what’s right for your practice’, so that means, not having a set budget, and not having a number in your mind, and saying ‘this is our budget’. I think it should be somewhere between zero and a number that you probably think is too much, but it should be commeasuring with that ROI, for sure.

Dr Anissa Holms: so what about online reviews, do they play a role with SEO?

Justin: they do, and you know, it’s not a huge role – like there’s some threads on dental town, people are talking about how google came out and said something I’ve been saying all along, that you should respond to reviews, and they came out with this new policy, and everyone’s going crazy about it, they’re like ‘oh my god, google says you have to respond to reviews, so oh my goodness, I have to respond to all of  my reviews’ and that’s the thing is, this is a very small drop in the SEO bucket. So if you don’t want to respond to your reviews, that’s not going to kill your SEO too much, if you don’t want to get reviews, that’s not going to kill your SEO too much; but here’s the catch; if you don’t have the attitude that you need to do whatever it is that you can to relate to your patients, to have them sing your praises, to get that buzz around your brand online, then that – it’s time for a prairie shift, because when you get online reviews, even though that doesn’t significantly help your SEO, what it does help with it – the way SEO works is, you’ve got hundreds of factors, so let’s say about 100 or 200 major factors and reviews are part of those, so if you’re doing everything right, but the  reviews, you might still not rank, and if you doing the  reviews right, and nothing else, then you probably still won’t rank.

So it’s a very – what I like to say is ‘be smart about how you invest yourself, and leverage your happy patients’, I mean they’re more than happy to leave you a raving review, I  mean they become evangelical when you under promise and over deliver, so in terms of SEO, online reviews do play a role, it’s somewhat minor, but here’s where online reviews really start kicking butt is; once you do get ranked, and you’ve got those tons of reviews,  like – there’s a lot  of studies that SEO companies have done, and the click through rate, meaning the number of people who search, who click on your ad, over the other ads, is significantly higher when you have a lot of 5 star  reviews, and for that reason, you almost are better off ranking number 3 – according to a lot of studies – you’re better off ranking number 3 with a ton of 5 star reviews, then ranking number 1 with not reviews. So in that sense – maybe not with ranking but with actually traffic, you’re going to actually get more traffic by having those online reviews, then you will, just doing SEO.

Dr Anissa Holms: good stuff, so in addition to the reviews, what other ways can dentists organically increase their SEO?

Justin: I would say, you know I’ve got a blog post that talks about the top 100 dental SEO factors, and that can give a good cursory overview, I would say the number one thing you want to do, that you can do yourself, is create quality content, that’s the tough part, that’s the heavy lifting in SEO. Once you have quality content, if you have a blog, if you have you social media stuff, and like a lot of the stuff that you would create for Facebook, there’s no  reason why that should not be – that should be syndicated to your blog – you should have some text, you should have something that googles search engine bots, as they crawl the entire internet, looking for signs of your relevancy, you’ve got to give them something, you’ve got to feed that search engine. And so that would be the number one thing.

Once you have quality content, you can bring in an SEO expert and you don’t have to necessary pay a monthly fee. Like for your website, Dr Holms, you rank number one for pretty much everything that you can think of, because you’ve created a real brand, and when your listeners can do that it’s sometimes, all it takes  is a few tweaks, maybe some coding changes, maybe some sort of strategic shift, where your now getting those inbound links, your now creating that buzz that search engines are looking for, all because you started with high quality content, that’s the tough part and that’s the part that most dentist – I believe that most dentists should be creating their own content, it’s not that hard, if they  follow  the advice in your Facebook group, and they apply that to, not just there Facebook, but there blog, there website in general, if you apply those principles, search engines are going to take notice, you may rank, depending on how competitive your landscape is, in your specific area, you may rank just from creating quality content.

But even if you don’t, having that quality content, and then bringing in an SEO expert,  and then he can be like ‘well okay, you deserve links form Dental Town, you deserve links from this ‘delieveringWow’ Facebook group’ and then search engines start looking at that and there like ‘well we know this is quality content,  we know there helping patients, we know their providing value, we know there thought leaders, because of all this activity and because people are linking to them’. So.

Dr Anissa Holms: that’s really cool,  and again, going back to the cycle, you know, I’m big in Facebook, but I’m also big in websites and SEO, and we often actually use blog posts, or things from our website and we create clicks to website campaigns through Facebook, so where definitely repurposing – you know through Facebook  were sending them to the blog post, and then from there 1we have the Facebook pixels so we can retarget them with specific ads about things that are in that blog post, again, it just goes back around and around in a circle, and it helps with SEO, it helps people find your website, it’s really great, so I really love that.

Justin: yeah. I mean, re-targeting is huge, you know, I actually just invested in infusion software myself, I know a lot of dentists have found success in email marketing, re-targeting of all kinds because I’m a huge component of retargeting, because, man, you just don’t know, I mean, how many times have you left a website, for a reason other than being disinterested.

Dr Anissa Holms: right, your kid called you and you have to click off and go do homework, or something like that.

Justin: right, and now it’s completely out of your mind – no one’s thinking – they go to your website, they love it, they go to your Facebook, they love it,  and something happened, the phone rang or something, and now it’s completely out of there mind. So I love retargeting, I think that’s great, it pairs well with SEO.

Dr Anissa Holms: good stuff. So let’s talk a little bit about google ad words and how dentist can grow their exposure using google ads.

Justin: yeah, google ad words is really key – I’ll tell you a little tip for your listeners is – this isn’t really super well known, is; Bing ads, they actually run for both the Bing search engine, and the yahoo search engine, and those ads are a lot cheaper then google ad words.

Any time you’ve heard something, by the time a marketing media becomes mainstream, it’s saturated and it’s expensive, so google AdWords is super critical, but it’s also almost like playing catch up. So, Bing ads right now, I think Bing ads and yahoo ads are a good play, if you’re looking for cheaper clicks that presumably of the similar value, and depending on your target market, if your advertising all in 4 for instances, or implants of any variety, or reconstructive surgery, maybe for more mature individuals, I know a lot of them use yahoo, a lot of them use Bing. AWAL is powered by google, so that would actually be google, but some of them are actually using Bing and yahoo, and let me tell you, Bing and yahoo are – there – Bing at least is starting to gain some ground, as far as market share, but there still super cheap when it comes to clicks, compared to google ad words.

Now it may be different from one area to another obviously if all your listeners jump on Bing ads, those rates may go up. But bringing it back to google ads specifically, it’s really good, because not only can you get new patients from google ad words, but you want also track the data, way better then SEO, and here’s the one thing that I don’t like about SEO,  it’s; some of the data is not geometrically proven. so by that I mean, the number of searches you’re getting, the number of clicks you’re getting to your website, you can get some data from google analytics, google webmaster tools, a number of different software’s that I use, but there’s still some serendipity in it.

You can’t necessarily track every call, I mean if you’ve got an existing website for an existing practice with an existing number, and I get it ranked for you – there is no call tracking involved in that, because we can’t – but with AdWords, what we can do is we can actually set up a call tracking number dynamically that appears on that website for that user that clicked on that ad. And so, you can track things way better, and so, when you can track things – you know they say ‘that which is measured is improved’, when you can track things, it’s so much better, like it’s so much more rewarding, so what I always encourage dentists to do is, if your considering SEO, consider AdWords first, because you can get the exact number of searches. A lot of data – I mean, I’ll use a number of different software’s, but the data as far as search volume, the number of people searching for  your dental services, those can be inaccurate, and I don’t really trust the data. For instance, google keyword tool, totally inaccurate – I’ve talked to a lot of  google reps in the past, they openly  admit it, they’re like ‘yeah, this thing is bonkers’ they don’t have any incentive to fix it, because it’s only SEO people like myself using it.

But yeah, google AdWords, they give you the real data, they give you the truth, they give you the accurate information that you need to make a fulling informed decision about what it means for you to rank. And so that’s part of my research process for most dentists, is ‘let’s run some AdWords’ let’s see if it’s even worth it for you to pursue SEO. So in that sense, ad words is  a really smart play, and I know a lot of dentist who contact me for SEO, they’re already running AdWords and there already getting new patients, and so they’re able to see the potential – like if you ranked for the AdWords, but  you’re not ranked on page one, or especially in the top 3, for the organic listings, then, you know, you can start to see, ‘oh man, if I got 5 new patients this  month from ad words’ – which by the way, I want you listeners to know, and take this with a grain of salt, because every office is different, every geographic area is different, but typically you see about 3% click through rate, on ad words.

A really good ad words ad, out of 100 searches for that keyword, will get clicked on 3 times. On the organic listings, for the number one listing, you’re looking at about 40% click through rate. So out of 100 searches, you’re going to get about 40 clicks. So if you can apply that to what you’re doing and say – and you know, adjust the numbers because very geographic area is different, and of course different keywords are going to be different, different click through rate. But that’s the general rule of thumb, is you’ve got 3% for your top, top notch ad words, you’ve got 40% for your number 1 organic, number 2 organic, it’s 20% click through rate, number 3 gets 10 % and you bring it all the way to the bottom, and now the 10th organic result and you’re looking at 3% click through rate. So literally getting at the bottom of page 1, tends to get the same number of website traffic, as running an AdWords.

So anyways, that’s an important piece of data for your listeners to understand, is; were able to use that data, were able to see ‘okay, if you got 5 new patients this  month from ad words, imagine, take that number and times it by almost ten and that’s what you’re going to get if you rank number one organically’

Dr Anissa Holms: good stuff. So what is the biggest win that you had working with a client?

Justin: you know, there’s so many – there’s so many different types of wins, for me, sometimes the biggest wins are the ones where we help the dentist understand that SEO is not  really going to build you the practice that you want, and I’m able to help save them the cost – say they were considering a company and you know – there’s companies out there that are really legit at SEO, and they charge anywhere from $5 000-$10 000 per month, and being able to show them, and prove to them – look, and that’s the high end, but I would say the average SEO company, helping a dentist, is probably around $1 00 to $1500 per month – to save them that money, and to prove to them that you don’t really need SEO, it’s a really good feeling. Because you can apply that now to say Facebook ads, and that will get you a better ROI, and we do that through the research. So in many ways – it’s not a big win for me, but it’s a really big win for the dental office, so that’s probably the best one, in far of me not being braggadocios.

But I would say, a recent example,  and you can look this up on google, your listeners can look this up, I promised this dental office, in a contract, I said ‘you going to get new patients in about 9 months, this is a super competitive areas, and one of the keywords was Charlotte dentistry’ – and that has a  search volume of around 3 000 searches per month, which is a lot – as you can imagine, that’s a lot of new patients, and in 5 weeks, we had them ranked number 3 on page 1 and they were getting lots of new patients. that was probably a recent example, I didn’t expect that, I always try to damper expectations ‘I’m like, you know, this may bounce around, this might bounce down 1 day and come back up, but this is all about the long term, after 6 months, this is going to stabilize’ it actually never did bounce around, it actually just stayed there. Sometimes you get lucky, you sometimes, you just do, and I would say that’s probably an example of good luck. But I would say as fair as good results, I would say – the thing that dentist really like about me is, I’m constant, I’m reliable, I consistently get websites to the top of page 1 of google and, you know – sometimes it takes time, but that consistency and that reliability, where you can feel comfortable knowing that I’m not trying to sell you on SEO and it’s not the right fit for your practice I’m just trying to deliver as good a results as I can – sometimes I even deliver ‘wow’.

Dr Anissa Holms: good stuff. You know I love that right.

So Justin, how a listeners contact you?

Justin: yeah, you know, you can find me at, and so that’s a pretty easy domain name to remember, because I’m the dental marketing guy. I’m on YouTube, I’ve got the dental marketing guy show, you’re on there, and I do interviews with industry experts like yourself. And then it’s a 2 part series, so there’s 1 part where, if you see me standing in a suit, that’s me talking about SEO usually, and so for that, I try to be educational, and then for the interviews, man, I just step aside and let experts like you talk about what you do, everything – pretty much everything other than SEO, although I’ve had some people who do SEO on the show as well.

Dr Anissa Holms: well I can tell you that I have had an awesome chat with you today, and I know that our listeners have got a ton of value from this show, so thank you so much for joining us on today’s podcast.

Justin: thank you very much for having me, it was a huge honor, and I can’t wait to delve into this Facebook course, I really want to learn this, I’ve been so busy doing SEO, that I haven’t had a chance to jump into it yet, but I’m really looking forward to that.

Dr Anissa Holms: well that pretty much wraps up another episode of the DelieveringWowlDentalPodcast, now if you want to have direct access to Justin; you want to make sure that you’re inside of the Delivering wow hangout at

That’s it for now guys, take care, and keep delivering Wow.

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